What , then, shall we sin against creation, so that grace may abound?

You're right about the renew/recreate thing - I prefer what you said about renewing the cosmos. Jurgen Moltmann has written a lot about this issue, being German, and these issues having been much more important in Germany for a lot longer. He goes so far as to suggest that God in his grace will even restore/resurrect the species that we as humans have made extinct...so the dodo will make a comeback. Again, that shouldn't make us feel like we can sit back and let everything die off. Instead, we should see the grace for what it is and apply ourselves to stewardship even more...

That's really interesting. I remember reading moltman when i did theology, but as a young zealous evangelical, i found him so liberal ...!!!

I haven't actually read him, I've just done a theology degree which means that someone has told me what he thinks! ;-) He's a Trinitarian universalist like Barth was. I'm not sure I can go down that line: I think that God will renew creation, but there will still be judgement, and that the judgement will probably look different for the different orders of creation. (Humans will be judged differently from animals and matter). Universalism suggests, ultimately, that God gets his way whether we like it or not, but it seems to be contradicted by so many verses in the bible. I'm an Arminian at heart, attracted to Open Theism but realising that there are some real difficulties that can come out of that. Interestingly, Socinus the heretic who first taught the principles of Open Theism was also the first unitarian Christian (contradiction in terms?)

I haven''t been able to get round the subtleties in the various universalist positions (Trinitarian, Unitarian, Pluralist) but the folk I have met who think in in these terms seem, ultimately, to shy away from evangelism and helping people come to faith, sometimes (it seems to me) in contradiction to their earlier experiences of the cross and the Christian gospel which saw them become passionate about Christ in the first place. You can see how holding these positions will generally lead people in ethical terms towards social justice rather than evangelism as the order of the day. I fear it tends to lead to syncretism, or at least a lack of confidence that Jesus Christ has something unique to offer to people. But then, an evangelical approach can be just as prone to syncretism. The biggest area nowadays, of course, is in the area of our finances and Mammon. I think this is a struggle for Christians of all persuasions in the West, in particular.

I get really frustrated with folk who think that we somehow need to embrace more liberal doctrine because evangelicals have supposedly been rubbish at social justice. Its just not true historically. Having a deeply serious commitment to scripture will always lead us to a deep commitment to social justice, but not through syncretising our faith with Marxism (liberation theology)...Isaiah had already said everything we needed to know about God's heart for social justice, its just that the church never listened and Marx had to kick us up the arse. Miroslav Volf taught a guy called Mark Gornik who did some great inner-city mission and wrote a book called Biblical Faith and the Changing Inner City in which a strong Trinitarian theology devoted to shalom but still keeping a real focus on evangelical essentials undergirded the work. There seems to be an element of moving in these directions (liberal, universalist) as people mature in the faith and some of the old distinctions and passions die away. It worries me that this can come at a price for those of the generation behind them who don't encounter the evangelical message and the joy and freedom it brings because its been abandoned.

I guess I still have a lot to learn about these issues, but deconstructing the theological and hermeneutical building blocks that end up giving people a liberal worldview (which really is irreconcilably distinct from the evangelical/pentecostal one - an issue that I'm growing more sceptical that post-modernism will be able to solve) has allowed me understand where it all comes from, and why I can't begin to go in these directions. The thing with the 'deep theologians', of course, is that they are often so profound that you can agree massively with part of their theology and disagree deeply with other parts. Also, people from different perspectives end up "using" these guys for their own ends, but never really engaging with what they are trying to say over all (I'm sure I'm prone to this, too!).

My favourite theologian at the moment is Miroslav Volf. Greatly influenced by Moltmann, but doesn't go into the universalist stance...still seems to argue for exclusion from God at the end of the day. I really wish the gospel was universalist in scope, that Christ's atonement was so all-embracingly efficacious, but I just can't see it making the most sense of the most scripture. (eg, why did he tell parables that deliberately excluded people?). And I think it has little to say about the meaning of evil and all the suffering still in the world. Christ's grace is sufficient to embrace anyone who choses to allow themselves to be embraced by it...

Paul, I like the way you are blogging here. You are communicating well, and in an entertaining way. Do you preach like this?

Not in Possil, I don't :-) Not sure where this would work as a preach except in quite intellectual suburbia...

'He's a Trinitarian universalist like Barth was'

Hi Paul,

I don't want to be pedantic, but Barth wasn't a universalist.

I may wish that he was - and that may be the logical outcome of his published views - but he adamantly and repeatedly stated that he was not espousing universalism.

Hi Graham,

Thanks for correcting me :-) I think I read it somewhere but I'm relying on secondary sources rather than yet having engaged myself with Barth. I may get the chance to someday...I'd be really interested to learn more about how you see these issues (I guess I still have a lot to learn about these issues), maybe I should go to your blog a bit more often (!!!). What has your journey been like?